Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:17 pm

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HaRuRiNaMaMiToMo

International Performer
International Performer
I'd like to make a few suggestions for the banners on the site used when a single/album is released. Going to take the latest release "Runners High" as example for that. Of course suggestions are for the future, not for this current vote =P

1. Maybe I'm wrong but I think in the past there was 4 banners? Lately it's 3 only. Not sure why (maybe technical limitation now?) but I suggest to choose 4 final banners. There are a lot of banners submitted to choose from and because you can choose the banner to display with your system it harms no one and is better. I feel that a lot of good banners miss their chance, why not display 4? Obviously there wouldn't be a point if you could display 20 but I feel 3 is not enough. Tis would also help my second suggestion, see below.

2. There should be at least one banner with the limited/regular edition design. Currently in the final vote here there is no banner with the limited edition design. Now it means that users preferred to vote for other designs yes... but it also means that some banners in the end might look the same and that we are missing a design.

My suggestion would be to make "categories" to vote on early instead of putting the banners randomly in different threads A, B, C, etc. What I mean is that one of the final banners should have the "regular edition" design, another should have the "limited edition" design, etc. That could prevent some accidents were some banners look almost the same and would also be better to "promote" the CD. Also better for the forums IMO because there is more choices for the users with several different designs. So when the votes starts why not put each design in a different thread like "Vote for Regular Edition design", "Vote for Limited Edition design", "Vote for Promo photos design", etc. Of course some banners are heavily edited with all kind of effects but there is usually always one main design used.

While writing this message, the 2 top votes are for banners with the promo photos design. If the third one ends up like that too it means we could have 3 banners without the regular edition or limited edition design... I think that is bad and doesn't represent the single at all. Yes the covers have to be on each banners but they are of course small and it's not a full design. That's why I suggest that you add "categories" in the future so in the end we could have 1 banner at least with each "design". It's a better representation of different designs and a better "promo" for the band IMHO.

3. I am a bit disappointed that the contest is so late and if I remember correctly it's not the first time =( We know the single is coming since a long time and we have the official promo pictures since a few weeks. The gallery topic was started on December 15 so I guess that means we have the first official photos since that date and the covers were published around January 10 so one month before single release. But right now we still don't have the banners up and the single will be out for 2 weeks =(

As I understand it the banners are not only there to be pretty, there is also the release date on it, the full name, etc. It's a bit to help the promo, at least I see it a bit like that too. I think you should start the contest much much earlier and that it should end before the single comes out. I know that admins don't have time sometimes and all that but if it's the case maybe give the powers to moderators to do that? The rules are clear and basically it's a copy/paste to do, surely one of the moderator could do that a few weeks before the single comes out? Basically wait for 2-3 official photos and then launch the contest. This surely doesn't take a lot of time with the copy/paste to at least launch the contest.

No only does it mean that banners creators will have more time to work on (yes I suppose that a lot of them don't wait for the thread to start working on them, TGE does that I think) but it will also give us more time to vote of the banners. The final vote for Runners high is 3 days long, I really think this is not enough and currently there are only 17 votes. With hundreds of members this is a bit disappointing and the short period of voting doesn't help. By starting much earlier all that process could easily be optimized IMHO Happy

If it is a admin problem/busy/not available please consider giving powers to a moderator, I'm sure one of them would at least have a few minutes to copy/paste the text and start the contest and then mater make the different threads for the votes.

Well this is only my point of view and please see it as suggestions, not saying that the system is bad!! But I think it could be improved and optimized. Obviously it's not the end of the world, but you guys have a suggestions forums and I thought that I could share that  Onion Smile

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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:32 pm

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Lexian

Moderator
Moderator
http://ask.fm/frozentheory
Hi HRMT,
I don't have responses to all of your suggestions but I'll try to give any input that I can (and have knowledge of).

1) We have had 3 winners for banner contests since the Pride banner finals of January 2011. The times we had 4 winners were during the ENCORE SHOW contest (tie for 3rd) and Queens are trumps (3-way tie for 2nd place). Prior to that we only had 2 winners. Technically speaking, I'm almost sure that this was due to forumotion, the service that SH is based on, and their own tech limits back in the day. Right now running 4 banners is possible but when you consider the low number of participating voters, I don't see it as a viable solution. As I'm typing this, it would only take 1 or 2 votes to get that 4th spot. And then you'd have the chance of running into a tie for 3rd or 4th =_=. From the way I see it, having 4 winners would be more..."appropriate" (for lack of a better word) if we had ~50+ votes like in most banner finals of past years.

2) All I can say about this is that this whole banner voting is subjective, that is: opinion-based. The banners that go through to the next voting round are a reflection of what the forum wants to see. For example, if the voters want banners based on the regular ed. then there's a good chance it'll make it through the finals. From my own stand point, if the banners are artistically different enough (meaning variety of colors, formatting, images, filters, etc.), then I'm happy with that. I'm not sure where I stand on the idea of dictating that the winner banners should be reg ed., limited ed., promo, etc.

3) As far as I know, I think only admins are allowed set up the post for the banner contest (unless moderating News, Updates, and Announcements section is possible) the and make any layout changes to the site. I'm not too familiar with these kinds of things so I'll leave it up to the others to fill-in on this one.

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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:39 pm

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HaRuRiNaMaMiToMo

International Performer
International Performer
Hey thanks for the answer  Nice One 

1. Ah yeah it comes from the ENCORE SHOW, I think it was the first banners I saw and I liked the fact that you could have 4 designs. Well 3 banners might be the normal number then but still think it's not enough =P

What you say about the votes is right but as I mentioned in my first message, the voting period is really short so this also explain why there are not a lot of votes. Not sure about previous contests and how long they were available and how many votes they got but overall I don't see that as a huge problem. There are enough quality submissions to get 4 banners to get more diversity and please fans and banner creators. And if the contest starts earlier as mentioned there will be more votes and much less chance of a tie-break situation. If there is one you could simply let the staff decide which one should win or add a rule like "in a case of a tie-break the first banner submitted when the contest started will win".

2. Yes if all the banners are only from one design it means the voters like that design but I don't think it's the best solution for everyone. The end result is linked to the previous vote rounds and in what group the banners end up.

One vote thread may end up with 4 amazing banners but only 2 will win and the 2 others are lost while in another thread they are only 1 awesome banner. Yes it's subjective and users vote but by having categories we would be sure to have the different design and the best banner for each would win.

When you vote for a banner you are not gonna check the results before or do a lot of thinking about how everything will look at the end, you just vote for a cute banner. So users don't see the whole picture here they just do a quick vote but I think the whole system should think about that whole picture and what the final results could be and what is the best solution for the fans, the forum and the creators.

By having categories it would ensure that each design will be displayed which reflect each part of the single/album promo not only one awesome/cool/sexy photo =P Right now at this moment we are like 2 votes away from having 3 banners with the same background image! While this represent what the users like (and the banners are great, good job guys!) this should not be the best outcome possible.

By adding categories you would ensure a higher quality for the site and better promo for the single/album IMO. Ending up with similar design is a risk with the current system and as a user I would really be disappointed to see 3 banners almost identical :/ Not you?

3. I wasn't actually talking about letting moderators change the layout in the end, yes I'm pretty sure only admins can do that Happy Well it's also a problem if they don't have time when the moment comes to do that but it's another issue.

I was saying that IMO moderators could easily just start the contest thread a few weeks before the single comes out or just as soon as it is possible. As mentioned it's just a copy/paste to do basically to get things started and shouldn't take long at all. I think it's not optimal to wait for admins to be available for such an easy task if they are busy or forgot a single is coming out.

If that first step is forgotten or takes too long, the whole process with the voting gets late like it is the case right now. As said, when the banners will be up the single will already be out for 2 weeks, basically it's old history. It should be something we work on before the single comes out to build the excitement while we get more infos on the song, previews, the PV, etc. And it's a good way to "promote" the song for any viewers on the site.

If moderators cannot start a thread in that forum maybe admins could change some settings? Moderators are trusted people for the site, I don't see the problem by letting them the possibility to start a thread there. It's not a big deal and would help the whole process.

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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:53 am

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Yassu

International Performer
International Performer
It was long to read, but well, my post will be short, I swear :p

1) I think Lexian alredy replied to it, but I agree the voting period is too short (less than 10 days :/)

2) Totally agree. There are often 3-4 official pictures used for a single. this time we have:
-The one of Denise01
-Thoseguiltyeyes02/Cherlyn0 04
-Cherlyn0 01/Thoseguiltyeyes 05
-Thoseguiltyeyes 03


And in fact I was thinking if  it wouldn't be better to put firstly all banners who have the same picture on the same poll, and then to make a final vote between all banners which won in their group. At least we'll be sure to not have 2 banners with the same picture

3) I understand, but maybe admins prefer to wait until the release date before to change the banner. And I think they're right: there are often the different editions of the last single/album on the banners, so why put a banner with a single/album not yet released? it will be a bit strange right? x)



Last edited by Yassu on Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total



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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:41 am

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Lexian

Moderator
Moderator
http://ask.fm/frozentheory
The way I see this, it looks like points 1 and 3 are related.
Here's a possible quick-fix that I thought up off the top of my head:

Main Problem: Voting period is too short and too late
- 4 days for group stages
- 3 days for finals

Possible fix:
(Using numbers from the current split single)
So, as you said, considering that the gallery thread was created on Dec 15 and the official pics and release date(Feb 12) were out to the public ~Jan 10...


- Somehow find a way to let mods post on the announcements section

- Have contest submissions open a couple of days after the official pics and release info are out. I know that those gallery are often updated during that period with higher quality official pics, larger dimensions, etc so this would be an ideal opportunity to use the activity from those sections to get banners made.

- I'm just throwing out numbers right now but how about:
1 week for the category/group stage
1 week for the finals

- After announcing the winners, it's pretty much up to the admins to change the banners...and layout for when white and gold aren't suitable colours anymore.


It's an improvement for allowing a longer voting period which should result in more votes, a possible 4th winner, and better avoidance of ties. The actual banner may still not be updated onto the forum for some time(in such cases as website glitches, admins are away, etc.)  but we'll know what the winning ones are.

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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:46 am

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thoseguiltyeyes

Administrator
Administrator
I'm just going to reply to one of your points for now.

2) I agree that splitting the banners up into different voting categories could be a good idea. It personally really bothers me when it seems like at least 2 banners with the same promo picture will win, and in SH's history so far it's happened once for the "Kagen no Tsuki" layout where 2 banners with the same pictures won (I posted a bit about my displeasure here). I honestly would not want something like that to happen again.

However, it still could happen if all of the banners are combined together in the finals. Maybe in the case of 2 winning banners having the same picture, the banner that has the highest number of votes takes precedence and the next highest voted banner with a different picture takes the next place after it.



Last edited by thoseguiltyeyes on Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total





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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:46 am

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Erick M

International Performer
International Performer
As few times banner contestant, I feel there are nothing much contestants can do with very few limited official pictures. Especially when other contestants already posting earlier.
We don't want to feels like copy the other design that already exist.
Just as suggestion maybe next time

- SH admins will announce banner contest with regulations, category and the picture contestants must use in each category.

- Then all the contestants can send their design or link design directly to SH admin within the deadline without posting in thread. 

- SH Admin will select, inspect and sort all the banners in each category

- SH admin post all the banner/link in each category at the same time and announce the voting.

Then again it's just a suggestion please do not get angry with me. My English not so good that my sentences might get misunderstanding  Praise



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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:14 pm

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HaRuRiNaMaMiToMo

International Performer
International Performer
3) I understand, but maybe admins prefer to wait until the release date before to change the banner. And I think they're right: there are often the different editions of the last single/album on the banners, so why put a banner with a single/album not yet released? it will be a bit strange right? x)

Well with my system suggestion and the longer voting periods the banners will surely not be up weeks before the single release and that is not the point anyway =P Again, this is not just random pretty picture to use for banner, it is linked to the single release and promo a bit (covers, date) so I think it's only natural to release it a bit before the single.

I think the banner contest should help to build up the excitement to the release date. If really admins don't want to put the banners up BEFORE the official release date... well it's their choice, even if I don't see any reasons to not do it. But then at least put it up the day the single is release. Doesn't change the fact that my suggestion about the whole system would still suit and work, the whole point is to start the contest earlier, have longer voting periods and be ready at least around the official release date. And not 2 weeks later with very short voting period =(

@lexian : Yes I am not sure you can come up with fixed periods/numbers because it really depends when they release the first promo pictures. But yes it's basically the idea, start the contest as soon as the first photos are released.

You can let that part of the contest open a long time because as you mentioned usually new promo photos appear and then we get the covers and higher quality photos too. But at least the contest will be there, fans would know a contest is going on and everyone can work and be prepared. It helps to set the pace and then decide when to put up the polls for the votes.

@thoseguiltyeyes : It may not happen a lot but it's a possibility with every contest =( Actually with the system I suggest and the "categories" you wouldn't have a real final vote. The whole point would be to separate the different designs and to have 1 winner for each. This is also why think 4 banners are better. Something like :

- Open the contest, everyone post their banners in the thread
- Close the submission thread
- Staff regroups the different design per categories
- Open a poll to vote for the "Regular Edition Banner"
- Open a poll to vote for the "Limited Edition Banner"
- Open a poll to vote for the "Promo photo #1 Banner"
- Open a poll to vote for the "Promo photo #2 Banner"
- After a good amount of time (at least 1 week I think so everyone has a chance to vote), the banner in each category with the highest vote is the winner
- You have 4 banners with 4 different designs

It prevents accidents, will provide a good visual for the forum because of 4 different design/photo and users have 4 real choices so they can choose the banner they like the most or simply change everyday. Everyone wins.

Now I realize that there might be more than 2 "promo photos", this was just an example to explain my system suggestion. The point would be to have a least 2 banners with the covers and then 2 other categories. Depends on how many different promo photo they release but you should be able to decide how to separate them.

Let's say they have the 2 covers of course but also 5 promo photo. You could do it like that :

- After the submission are closed, staff count the banners with each main design and tries to balance it into 2 categories
- Open a poll to vote for the "Regular Edition Banner"
- Open a poll to vote for the "Limited Edition Banner"
- Open a poll to vote for the "Promo photo #1 (design 1-2-3) Banner" (15 banners to choose from)
- Open a poll to vote for the "Promo photo #2 (design 4-5) Banner" (14 banners to choose from)

This is why I really think there should be 4 banners of course. Adopting a system like that with only 3 banners wouldn't really work because 2 banners would already be the covers and then you would only end u with 1 promo photo. But with 4 and a design for each you would have a representation of what the single is and please everyone.

Even if they release 5 promo photos and we end up with 2 design like that it would still ensure we have a least 2 designs. Because with the current system, in the same case with 5 promo photos, we could still end up with 3 banners that have only the covers on them and no promo pic at all :/ Same thing if they suddenly release 4 different covers, put up 2 categories with "covers" so in the end even if we don't have ALL the covers on the banners we would still have 2 banner design dedicated to the covers.

So the system is to find a balance to avoid accidents and be sure to have everything covered.

Anyway sorry, the posts are getting longer than expected lol, it's just that I thought I try to explain it in details.

I think by now I mentioned all the good/bad points of the system and why it would be more optimized but of course in the end if the staff doesn't feel it's good, well nothing I can do about it =P

That being said, even you don't consider changing the whole system please really consider letting the moderators open the contest so we can have longer contest and longer voting periods. With admins only there is always the risk to be late, better to have several people with the power to start the contest.

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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:39 pm

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metalleo

International Performer
International Performer
http://www.leojhphoto.com/
WRT voting time, it all depends on how many people actually want to vote in the first place. The number of unique users coming here during the voting period does not equate to the number of people who wants to vote. I myself am guilty of not voting whenever I took part as part of my personal principles to give everyone involved a fair chance (to the point that it's become a habit even when I'm not taking part like the current competition). So if the number of people who will vote is just that amount, there's no point in setting a longer period unless we actively encourage people to take part in the voting. Just my opinion



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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:45 pm

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HaRuRiNaMaMiToMo

International Performer
International Performer
Yes of course but that isn't really a problem. You can't force people to vote and no one wants that anyway =P

But by increasing the voting period you will surely get more votes. Not everyone can/wants to read the forum everyday. So by simply increasing the voting period you will surely have more votes at the end.

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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:04 pm

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mc~

Administrator
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http://scandaluniverse.wordpress.com
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First, I apologize for the delay. Yeah, only me and Yuujin can make threads in that section, it's a setting that I set and have never thought of changing since the start of the forum. But now that me and yuujin are very busy lately, I also think it would be better to finally give the other staffs thread starting permissions on the section. Thus, I have changed it now.

Here's how my banner contest system goes..

I always start the banner contest when the HP(home page) of SCANDAL updates its layout with the upcoming single. So that all official pictures are out when peeps start making their banners. SCANDAL updates their HP weeks(months during their early years) prior to the release. But there are times they release it late the reason the contest starts late sometimes. Anyway my point is the start of the contest always starts with the HP update of SCANDAL. After that I always give 2 weeks of contest time (1 for submissions and 1 for voting). This time the contest was started very late, again I apologize for that.

As for the number of winners, well I don't mind changing it to 4. Back when I started making more than one banner win, it was because I learned to rotate it(diff banner when page refreshes). When we were thinking about how many should win, we just didn't want too much different banners on refresh, so the number we came up with was 3. When there are 4, it means there was a tie. I only came up with pick-your-banner system 2 layouts ago, which I a think is much better. Since no one was really thinking(or suggesting to me) to increase it, I never really thought about it. So what I'm saying is I'll consider thinking about 4 banners for next time.

As for the similarity issue, I guess it's safe to say that a number of peeps here are not happy with how the final banners are turning out, only in terms of them being similar of course. The way I choose the groupings of banners is random, meaning I just randomly put them in groups for voting. Not sure how yuujin does it though. I don't think that having categories for voting is a bad idea either, though there are a lot to think about first before implementing something like this. The staff will be discussing it and we'll see in the next contest.





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Re: Suggestions about the Banner layout/votes/system
Posted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:11 am

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HaRuRiNaMaMiToMo

International Performer
International Performer
Ah sorry just realized I didn't answer after reading your post the other day!

Thanks for answering here  Praise 

I'm glad you guys read my suggestions and will think about it. Even if in the end you decide to not change anything it's great that you will at least discuss the system and see if it can be optimized a bit  Nice One 

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