Live vs Autotune [Page 1 of 1]

Live vs Autotune
Posted on Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:34 pm


Hyoku

Shiroten Performer
Shiroten Performer
https://www.facebook.com/hyokune/
I'm not sure if this allowed, but I thought some people might have the same thoughts (?) as me.

I'm a fan of SCANDAL, but have never been to their live concerts, therefore I searched up some lives and listened/watched them, some of them were a pain to listen to.
I don't have perfect pitch, but I have relative pitch and it always bothers me when I hear lives.

But when I see other rock band live concerts like ONE OK ROCK, Taka's live singing is as good as his recording sound.

So I was wondering how good SCANDAL's singing is, or if they aren't good at singing?
Because it would be really great if their singing was top notch with their instrument playing which then will make the live even more outstanding.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:25 pm


metalleo

International Performer
International Performer
http://www.leojhphoto.com/
how a singer sounds live can be down to a combination factors, such as singer ability, sound system quality and venue type, just to name a few. a poor sound system paired with lousy acoustics more than likely often destroys a performance. as for venue type, outdoor venues to me always sounds a bit more inferior to me due to the lack of echoing, so the sounds will feel much thinner than in an arena.

and looking back at their history, you also have to consider when were those videos recorded. their voices have improved drastically over the years, so what you're hearing back in a 2010 concert is not necessarily representative of what you will hear in a 2015 concert. this particularly holds true if you're watching a late 2011 performance, which was the period when HARUNA literally lost her voice, you can't be expecting top notch performances with damaged vocals (videos during those periods were the only ones i really cringed at, kinds of pains me to hear her performing like that).

and also take into account whether these concerts of other artistes have the audio autotuned or not. it doesn't just happens to studio recordings, some people have already mentioned how the DVD version of FESTIVAL sounded autotuned. 

if anything, i absolutely love how singers sound different live than on their studio recordings, at least i know they're not lip syncing. but that's just me. to me the closest representative of their true live ability is the live broadcast of FESTIVAL, i don't think they are able to autotune anything before it gets broadcasted, and i believe those are top notch sound systems and acoustics the arena has. they sound different from the studio versions, but they still sound pretty damn awesome IMO.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Asia Tour 2013 (Singapore) - 16/03/13
HELLO WORLD (Singapore) - 08/05/15
PERFECT WORLD (Budokan) - 12/01/16, 13/01/16
YELLOW (Singapore) - 04/06/16
10TH ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL (Osaka Izumiotsu Phoenix) - 21/08/16

Discovery of SCANDAL - 22/07/11
First SCANDAL Concert - 16/03/13
First Banner Chosen and Displayed On SH - 29/04/14
First SCANDAL Concert in Japan - 12/01/16
First Time to Photograph SCANDAL at a Concert - 04/06/16
Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:31 pm


spacecadet

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
http://www.alphabetcityblog.com
Hyoku wrote:So I was wondering how good SCANDAL's singing is, or if they aren't good at singing?
Because it would be really great if their singing was top notch with their instrument playing which then will make the live even more outstanding.

Well, every band is human, and they will have their better or worse nights. I have seen them live three times and all three times they sounded amazing. (Though I found out later that at one of those shows - Budokan - Haruna apparently lip-sync'd a few parts of a few songs.)

The live videos you see are often videos of them playing new songs that they're still in the process of perfecting - for example the Countdown 14/15 videos reposted here over the last couple days. These are often a bit rougher than videos of songs they've been playing for years. You don't see as many new videos anymore of them playing "Taiyou to Kimi ga Egaku Story", "Scandal Baby" or "Doll", which they still play at pretty much every show and they always sound pretty much perfect.

The current tour is the longest they've ever done so with a fairly static set list, I think they'll probably have every song down pat by the end.

All that said, I would rather hear them sounding human than "corrected" by autotune. I don't follow One OK Rock but nobody sounds perfect in person. Really good, sure, but not perfect. If someone sounds perfect, something technical is going on to make them sound that way. It's not always autotune - a really good singer can be helped a lot just by a good mix and some reverb. Often you don't get that with YouTube videos that were recorded from a live broadcast, so every little off-pitch note is accentuated.

If you're planning to see them on the current tour and you're worried about it, I wouldn't. In person they are completely different than they seem on most YouTube videos. A couple of their official live releases come close to capturing it if you crank the volume and watch on a big screen, but there's really no way to completely simulate the volume, the energy of the crowd, and the connection between the band and the crowd. It makes it easy to totally ignore any off-pitch notes, but honestly I don't even remember hearing any at the shows I've been to. (I'm sure there were some, but the point is you just don't hear it.)

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:48 pm


PPPeter

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
As I have not seen girl live (yet, just wait O2, just wait Wink), I can only talk about perception of live concerts in general.
For me, what I look for in live performances if exactly this perfect imperfection of human being - not polished by artificial means, but raw, edgy, with sometimes false note, some higher pitch etc. From what I heard on recordings of lives of Scandal they are quite "true " - for example Rina on Scandal in the house at Festival - changed pace to be able to do her part. And it was good. Different from studio cut, yet good in this imperfect way.
I remember one concert of Blind Guardian - where lead vocalist was ill - he had to drink a lot of water during concert. You could hear this, yet... it was one of the best live performances I've been at - because it was true one Wink And we sung one song by ourself (Bard song, of course). I think Hansi was touched Wink I should maybe learn Japanese at last - so I could sing along with Scandal that way Wink

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:41 am


Kimochii

Shiroten Performer
Shiroten Performer
http://tnmaa.net
I didn't watch SCANDAL Bands live performance yet. But I'm watching on Youtube. Sometimes they lipsync. But most of the time. They really sing the song.  Nice One


_________________________________________________________________________________________________
............
Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:03 pm


spacecadet

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
http://www.alphabetcityblog.com
Kimochii wrote:I didn't watch SCANDAL Bands live performance yet. But I'm watching on Youtube. Sometimes they lipsync. But most of the time. They really sing the song.  Nice One

The only lip sync'd live performance I've ever heard of was a few parts of a few songs at Budokan.

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:38 pm


GibsonPhoenix

Caless Student
Caless Student
I'm not that sure whether those live concerts are lip-synced (at least on stage). For their DVD/ Blu Ray releases most of the concerts are meant to sell. These concerts are usually not taken during a regular tour or so, but held separately (I think). Obviously, when you're trying to sell these recordings you want to have them sound as good as possible. Some of it, and maybe not only the voices, was mastered afterwards (which could, of course, involve auto-tune). This is a pretty common thing to do when musicians release a live recording, up on to the point where the whole thing is re-recorded in the studio an therefore re-synced with the recording. 
Don't get me wrong this is no accusation and I love SCANDAL's live recordings. It just seems to be common practice and wouldn't be wondering, if this was done here as well, at least partly. I have no idea, how common this is in Japanese music business, but in western music it seems to be.
If your compare their concert releases with other live recordings, like from festivals etc. you can here a difference. It is quite normal to miss a note or two while singing/ playing, but on those concerts, you usually don't here one of those, which is quite suspicious  Hmmm

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:31 pm


spacecadet

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
http://www.alphabetcityblog.com
GibsonPhoenix wrote:For their DVD/ Blu Ray releases most of the concerts are meant to sell. These concerts are usually not taken during a regular tour or so, but held separately (I think).

Usually they seem to try to release DVD's of "special" shows. Even the First Live DVD was taken from a short series of Christmas shows. But I'm pretty sure the second DVD was just from the Temptation Box hall tour. After that, they started only releasing DVD's of the big arena shows.

up on to the point where the whole thing is re-recorded in the studio an therefore re-synced with the recording. 
Don't get me wrong this is no accusation and I love SCANDAL's live recordings. It just seems to be common practice and wouldn't be wondering, if this was done here as well, at least partly.

It definitely was not done on the Budokan disc, I can at least tell you that. There are some very specific things I remember hearing in the audience at that show that are on the disc. It's possible they did some "selective" re-recording, I guess, but I don't think so. I'm usually pretty good at detecting any shenanigans like that, because it drives me nuts, especially when I was there. (I did not detect the lip-syncing until it was pointed out, because that's what I heard at the arena and it blended with the real vocals just as well in person as it does on the disc.)

If your compare their concert releases with other live recordings, like from festivals etc. you can here a difference. It is quite normal to miss a note or two while singing/ playing, but on those concerts, you usually don't here one of those, which is quite suspicious  Hmmm

Their official releases definitely have a lot more processing, and recently, auto-tune. I don't believe they started with the wholesale auto-tune until "Wonderful Tonight", though. The fact that they sound better than they do on some YouTube videos on the discs prior to that is probably just down to other sound processing/mixing, a better/more controlled monitor setup at the venue they were playing at, and honestly, probably just more effort on their part. When they know a concert is going to be released on DVD, I'm sure they try really hard to stay on key, even more than normal.

Even still, on the older discs you can often hear them get off key a little bit, but it sounds fine both because the mix sort of covers it up, but also because we know they're human. YT videos, though, often aren't mixed well and they don't have control over the monitor setup at the venue.

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:17 pm


kudo_maharizu

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
http://stomachofchaos.com
I saw them live a few times, and the three shows from the recent tour was top notch. As metalleo says, they've been around long enough, played hard enough, toured a lot - it shows. Even when I saw them early on in the Hello Word Tour (saw nights 2 and 3), they were bang on for the new songs unlike how they sounded in Countdown 14/15. And by the time they played the London show in April - well, after 30-odd nights of playing pretty much the same stuff, they sure don't suck.

And oh, as for the first post about OOR. Taka was spot on when I saw them live in 2013, but he sounded worn out last December at the London show - so much so, that I was very disappointed. He's got a great voice but being human, he can suck some times.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________


~ CHECK OUT MY [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] VIDEO! 見てください!  ~

16/3/2013 *SCAPE Warehouse | SINGAPORE
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
12/1/2016 日本武道館 | 東京、日本
13/1/2016 日本武道館 | 東京、日本

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:03 am


shirokun

Shiroten Performer
Shiroten Performer
kudo_maharizu wrote:I saw them live a few times, and the three shows from the recent  tour was top notch. As metalleo says, they've been around long enough, played hard enough, toured a lot - it shows. Even when I saw them early on in the Hello Word Tour (saw nights 2 and 3), they were bang on for the new songs unlike how they sounded in Countdown 14/15. And by the time they played the London show in April - well, after 30-odd nights of playing pretty much the same stuff, they sure don't suck.

And oh, as for the first post about OOR. Taka was spot on when I saw them live in 2013, but he sounded worn out last December at the London show - so much so, that I was very disappointed. He's got a great voice but being human, he can suck some times.
Taka's usually always on point, though I've seen a performance where he couldn't hear himself and was completely off-key. But yeah, I saw SCANDAL during the Hello World tour and they killed it. Made me happy, even though USA got shorter setlists... -____-


_________________________________________________________________________________________________
櫻井義郎
시로 (21)
Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:45 am


GibsonPhoenix

Caless Student
Caless Student
@spacecadet
I think you're right. The Budokan concert is sort of different. I guess, with experience and money, environmental factors improve over time, as you said about setup, equipment etc. When I saw them on the latest tour, everything was very professional.  They sounded very natural and independent.

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:11 pm


saldiven

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
As for Scandal, their performances in LA and Aneheim were spot on. I was close enough to the stage (about 10 feet or so in front of Mami's microphone stand both nights) that I could tell they weren't lip syncing. Everyone I talked to afterwards was very impressed with the overall quality of the concert, both instrumentally and vocally.

(Though, Oyasumi does actually use some auto-tune, but I think that's an artistic choice, not a commentary on Rina's singing voice. It doesn't seem to be used to correct her pitch, but to add a layer of sound over her voice.)

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:09 pm


alrick13

Moderator
Moderator
saldiven wrote:As for Scandal, their performances in LA and Aneheim were spot on. I was close enough to the stage (about 10 feet or so in front of Mami's microphone stand both nights) that I could tell they weren't lip syncing. Everyone I talked to afterwards was very impressed with the overall quality of the concert, both instrumentally and vocally.

(Though, Oyasumi does actually use some auto-tune, but I think that's an artistic choice, not a commentary on Rina's singing voice. It doesn't seem to be used to correct her pitch, but to add a layer of sound over her voice.)

Same experience in HK I'm 12 ft more or less from Haruna's mic stand, everything is really perfect, ohhh  except that Haru did miss a word if my memory serves me right it is in Image or Your Song. I think it is because of Mami and Tomomi's stage antics they are doing this weird handshakes behind Haru whenever they have the opportunity, so I guess she got distracted by it.

Also note that the Nippon Budokan Live was held in March of 2012 and Haruna is still recovering from her voice problem since the start of 2011. Further details of that period (http://www.scandal-heaven.com/t6811-nhk-bs-premium-artist-documentaryscandal?highlight=artist). I think it will be hard logistically to postpone the concert so they decided to push through with it.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________
SCANDAL x miwa
Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:49 pm


Metal Mickey

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
Haruna missed couple of words during "Image" in Hong Kong live while Dobondobondo Duo got close behind her.
There was talk in Scandal's Sushi that all of their voice sounded really weird during the MC.
I'll say they all sounded like chipmunks. Not sure whether their microphones were feed through some sort of filter or there was auto-tune going on.

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:53 pm


saldiven

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
@Mickey: That's interesting. I can say that at both of the House of Blues shows, their voices during the MCs weren't higher pitched at all. In fact, Haruna's sounded rather husky on certain parts. Tomomi's was a little squeaky, but that's normal for her. Both Mami and Rina sounded normal to me, too.

There are lots of videos on Youtube that people took from the audience of those two shows, including separate videos of their MC talks, and one of when we sang happy birthday to Mami, and she thanked the audience, so there's plenty of chances for someone to watch those videos and see what their singing/speaking quality is like without any apparent modification.

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:07 am


shirokun

Shiroten Performer
Shiroten Performer
It depends on how loud it was and how close to the stage you were, when I saw BABYMETAL, their voices "sounded" higher because of how loud it was. Ears can only take so much.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________
櫻井義郎
시로 (21)
Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:53 pm


saldiven

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
shirokun wrote:It depends on how loud it was and how close to the stage you were, when I saw BABYMETAL, their voices "sounded" higher because of how loud it was. Ears can only take so much.

Good point. It's actually one of the reasons that I wear ear plugs when I go to concerts, especially if I'm going to be close to the speakers. I've discovered that the pressure wave from the speakers accompanied by the higher pitches from people's cheering can really detract from the overall sound quality of the music. The ear plugs block out the worst of that, improving the overall sound experience, to me.

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:22 pm


spacecadet

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
http://www.alphabetcityblog.com
alrick13 wrote:ohhh  except that Haru did miss a word if my memory serves me right it is in Image or Your Song. I think it is because of Mami and Tomomi's stage antics they are doing this weird handshakes behind Haru whenever they have the opportunity, so I guess she got distracted by it.

I think this is actually planned. Normally they do this during "Scandal Baby" and Haruna practically always misses a few words as she pretends to be surprised. (When I saw them at NHK Hall on the Standard tour, she dropped the act - she was almost definitely pissed off at something that night.) They may have done it during Image or Your Song instead for the overseas shows.

Also note that the Nippon Budokan Live was held in March of 2012 and Haruna is still recovering from her voice problem since the start of 2011.

According to that NHK doc, she "suddenly" got her voice back before Budokan. And she hit higher notes with her real singing than the lip-sync'd parts. So she didn't really need it and I wish they hadn't done it.

Metal Mickey wrote:I'll say they all sounded like chipmunks. Not sure whether their microphones were feed through some sort of filter or there was auto-tune going on.

It could have been some sort of processing but I doubt it was a pitch change, because that would make it impossible to sing.

Whenever I've seen them they sound normal during the MC's. The last couple of times Haruna has sounded a little hoarse.

Back to top Go down

Re: Live vs Autotune
Posted on Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:30 pm


saldiven

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
I agree with this. I think I mentioned it above, but at both the LA and Anaheim shows, Haruna sounded a little husky, but pleasantly so.

Back to top Go down