Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:12 am


Jibba

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
http://www.youtube.com/user/xJibba?feature=mhee
LieAnn wrote:

First question:
It's about the combination of verbs. According to lessons, a verb should be in い form to be able to combine it to another verb. For example:
あう >>> あい + New Verb
Basic Form >>> Change う to い then add the new verb
Now my question is, what should be the form of the new verb? And can you please give some examples of combined verbs 'cause I honestly can't think of any. ありがとうございます!

I'll try help a bit,
the " いform" of the verb is known as the verb stem. The sound does not always end in い. For example, when you have a word like たべます, to find the stem you drop ます, so たべ is the stem, and similarly the stem of はしります (to run) is はしり.

I don't know combined verbs as a native speaker would, but for learners the ones I have been taught that are added to the Verb Stem are:

1. Verb Stem~はじめる* (to start) eg: はしりはじめる (to start running)

* はじめる, is used for a controllable change,
For a sudden or uncontrollable change you use
Verb Stem~だす 
eg: 雨ふりだした。(It suddenly began to rain, notice が, ~だす is always used with が)
In the 'start running' example, if you wanted to suggest that you were being chased or were running away from something then you could use: はしりだす

2. Verb Stem~つづける (to continue) eg:べんきょうしつづける (to continue studying)

3. Verb Stem~おわる (to finish) eg: たべおわる (to finish eating)

4. Another one I know is Verb Stem + すぎる, which is used to indicate that you have done something too much.
eg: しんぱいすぎる (to worry too much) or たべすぎた (ate too much)


Second question:
It's about the "while (verb)" thing. Again, according to lessons I found on the net:
わらう >>> わらい + ながら >>> わらいながら means "while laughing"
Basic Form >>> Change う to い + ながら
My question is about the pattern of the sentence, for example I want to translate this sentence:
She is dancing while laughing.
Which verb comes first?
This is the Verb Stem + ながら pattern, the order of the the verbs depends on which action is more important. The secondary verb is added to ながら.
In your example, i'll say dancing is the primary (more important) action so the secondary action is laughing therefore it'll be:
かのじょわらいながら、おどっている。(She is dancing while laughing, or literally While laughing, she is dancing)

Another example would be:
Ipod を ききながら、しゅくだいをする。(While listening to my Ipod, I do my homework)

Doing homework is the primary action, therefore ながら is added to listening.
If you wanted to make it seem that you weren't really doing homework and were mainly listening to your Ipod, then you would swap the verbs around.

Hope that helps, If you want I could scan some of the notes/handouts my Japanese teacher gave on these two grammars (or others which I have learnt), they are quite detailed.

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:21 am


LieAnn

International Performer
International Performer
Thanks Jibba!!!! That really helps! Now I can go on with verbs. ^_^ If it's not too much on your part, yes, I want to see your notes! Thanks a lot! Praise


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:40 am


tenjounokaze

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
Thanks to Jibba and Paladinoras for providing great answers to these questions! Keep them coming guys! Let's make this thread a fountain of knowledge! Clap


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:12 am


Jibba

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
http://www.youtube.com/user/xJibba?feature=mhee
These are made by my Japanese teacher, didn't ask her whether I could post them here (should be fine), but don't go randomly posting them all over the internet, just keep them on this forum thanks.

Intransitive/Transitive Verbs and use with Stem + ~verb


More on that


Too much (すぎる)


While using ながら、間、うちに



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:05 am


LieAnn

International Performer
International Performer
Jibba, thank you very much! Your notes helped me a lot! Happy


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:48 am


yurisaku

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
http://yurisaku14.blog.fc2.com
uwaa~~ i wanna print everything here!! xD im learning even by reading these! :D

now i have my question (i know i have lots of them but i learn by speaking to my japanese friends XD and im here to ask some clarifications :D)

how do i express "i use something.." like..
Ex. I use/d a ballpen.

is it

ペンを使う
ペンを使った

and what if i continue the sentence as,
"I use a ballpen for writing down notes."

im not sure as to how to translate this D:


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:14 pm


chiy102

International Performer
International Performer
Thank you, Jibba, for the notes~~!!

本当に ありがとうございました!!

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:35 am


tenjounokaze

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
yurisaku wrote:how do i express "i use something.." like..
Ex. I use/d a ballpen.

is it

ペンを使う
ペンを使った

and what if i continue the sentence as,
"I use a ballpen for writing down notes."

im not sure as to how to translate this D:

Yuri-chan, feel free to ask as many questions as you like - including the ones you asked me in a PM a while back and I just remembered, I haven't answered. ごめんね。 Shy

Your sentences on "I use a pen" and "I used a pen" are exactly right. For your continuation sentence, it would be simply:

ノートを取る(と・る)ためペンを使う・使います。

If there's anything else, please post it here and someone will answer it - thanks! Clap


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:26 am


yurisaku

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
http://yurisaku14.blog.fc2.com
うわあ~~ありがとうございます先生!
(Thank you very much sensei!)

矢張り! "tame" was something like "for" nyahaha xD


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:07 pm


320x200

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
Often I hear people saying something that sounds like "いいよ,いいよ" when they're reassuring someone that something is ok/fine. Is this the correct spelling? If it is, does it literally mean "good,good" with the よ adding emphasis?


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:28 pm


sshinoda95

Shiroten Performer
Shiroten Performer
https://twitter.com/nisyedlah
LOVE YES WAY!!! I WANNA LEARN JAPANESE TOO!!! THANKS DUDE, UR AWESOME! Smile I only know a phew phrases. BTW, how do ya rite in japanese in the PC?! (noob)...Tongue Whistle

when/where do we actually start? ...just asking...Happy Clap Wew



Last edited by Plutonium on Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Don't double post, use the edit feature.)

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:14 pm


yurisaku

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
http://yurisaku14.blog.fc2.com
Aaahh~~ i have another question Sweating

how do i express necessities?
Ex.
I need a car. (with noun)
I need to go to school. (with verb)

are there any special conjugations? or i just use the verb for "need" ?

thanks again!! :D


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:26 pm


Jibba

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Mainstream Artist
http://www.youtube.com/user/xJibba?feature=mhee
sshinoda95 wrote: LOVE YES WAY!!! I WANNA LEARN JAPANESE TOO!!! THANKS DUDE, UR AWESOME! Smile I only know a phew phrases. BTW, how do ya rite in japanese in the PC?! (noob)...Tongue Whistle

when/where do we actually start? ...just asking...Happy Clap Wew

I only know how to do it on XP, you need your Windows XP CD as well.
Go to Control Panel -> Regional and Language Options -> Languages Tab -> Check the 'Install files for East Asian languages' box

Then it should prompt you for the Win XP CD.
Then I think you click details on that same Languages Tab, then click Add Japanese.

Kinda forgot how it works but that's how I did it ages ago.


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:54 am


LieAnn

International Performer
International Performer
Jibba wrote:
sshinoda95 wrote: LOVE YES WAY!!! I WANNA LEARN JAPANESE TOO!!! THANKS DUDE, UR AWESOME! Smile I only know a phew phrases. BTW, how do ya rite in japanese in the PC?! (noob)...Tongue Whistle

when/where do we actually start? ...just asking...Happy Clap Wew

I only know how to do it on XP, you need your Windows XP CD as well.
Go to Control Panel -> Regional and Language Options -> Languages Tab -> Check the 'Install files for East Asian languages' box

Then it should prompt you for the Win XP CD.
Then I think you click details on that same Languages Tab, then click Add Japanese.

Kinda forgot how it works but that's how I did it ages ago.

If you're using a Window 7 OS, just go to Control Panel>>>Region and Language>>>Keyboards and Languages>>>Then click Change Keyboards..>>>Click Add>>Then Click Japanese then click OK. That should do it.


And thanks again Jibba. Your notes are awesome! ^_^


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:31 am


Jibba

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
http://www.youtube.com/user/xJibba?feature=mhee
Glad the notes were helpful !

yurisaku wrote:Aaahh~~ i have another question Sweating

how do i express necessities?
Ex.
I need a car. (with noun)
I need to go to school. (with verb)

are there any special conjugations? or i just use the verb for "need" ?

thanks again!! :D
Let's see...
I need a car would just use the verb いる (to need)
So sentence would be くるまいります.

For I need to go to school, you could probably literally say that with 学校に行くことがいります。(doubt that's even right)
But I reckon, the best way to say this would be, I must go to school, which uses the なければ ならない/ いけないgrammar.

I must
~なければなりません (polite)
~なければならない (plain) 

You must
~なければいけません (polite)
~なければいけない (plain)

To put a verb in this form, you take the negative plain form of a verb (I'm assuming you know this already)
eg: 行く -> 行かない

With the verb in plain neg. form, you drop the ない and add なければならない. So to say 'I must go', it's
行かなければならない。

So for your original sentence, 'I must go to school' or 'I have to go to school'.
It would be
学校に行かなければならない。

Say if it was your mother telling you that 'You must go to school' or 'You have to go to school'
It would be
学校に行かなければいけない。

You might have already heard the very casual form of this grammar in anime or songs without realising it.
As なければいけない is a mouthful to say, in casual speech, it's usually shortened to ~なきゃ。
eg: 行かなきゃ (I must go)
A common one in school based anime is,
いそがなきゃ (I must hurry)

Hopefully you understood how it works. Clap


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:10 am


yurisaku

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
http://yurisaku14.blog.fc2.com
uwaa~~

yes yes i understood it Clap

though the なければならない thing makes me twist my tongue ahahahaha xD
i think i can settle to なきゃ in casual speech :D

thanks so much!!! :D

note for tenjou-sensei:
maybe you can just post my questions via PM here so that the others who might have the same question as me may know the answers too :D arigatou!


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:44 pm


chiy102

International Performer
International Performer
Hi, this is a question for my fan letter that I am writing.

I wanted to express something like this: I saw SCANDAL for the first time when they performed Shunkan Sentimental (with Elisa) on Animax Musix Spring 2010 on TV.

I have difficulty trying to phrase it, this is what I came up so far: テレビ番組 Animax Musix Spring 2010 で瞬間センチメンタルの演奏 (with Elisa)を初めて見ました。

I guess the two are not really close, are they? Can anyone give any suggestions?

Thank you~~

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:26 pm


Paladinoras

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
^ Erm, I think a better TL would be

私はテレビで ANIMAX MUSIX SPRING 2010 の 瞬間センチメンタル(with ELISA)を行ったときに初めてスキャンダルのことを見た。

Now I could be very very wrong, my Japanese skills are somewhat rusty, so I suggest asking tenjou to be sure.


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Please, call me Pally. XD
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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:01 pm


chiy102

International Performer
International Performer
Thank you, Paladinoras. Sure, let's wait for Tenjou-san to verify it than. (^w^)

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:06 pm


tenjounokaze

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
Jibba wrote:
For I need to go to school, you could probably literally say that with 学校に行くことがいります。(doubt that's even right)
Jibba, 要る as a verb cannot be used this way - however, if you're trying to emphasize "the need" to go to school (in English for example, "There's a need to go to school/It's necessary to go to school")、you can say:

学校に行くことが必要(ひつよう)です。

Jibba wrote:
I must
~なければなりません (polite)
~なければならない (plain) 

You must
~なければいけません (polite)
~なければいけない (plain)

A note on the difference between ならない and いけない: translating them both as "must" is not quite correct, and it does not matter the subject (I or you) - いけない is the less serious of the two, and is more comparable to "have to". ならない is perhaps the most emphatic way to express necessity in Japanese, which makes it comparable to the English "must".

chiy102 wrote:
I wanted to express something like this: I saw SCANDAL for the first time when they performed Shunkan Sentimental (with Elisa) on Animax Musix Spring 2010 on TV.

I have difficulty trying to phrase it, this is what I came up so far: テレビ番組 Animax Musix Spring 2010 で瞬間センチメンタルの演奏 (with Elisa)を初めて見ました。

Chi, the way you have your sentence there, you are saying You first saw a performance of Shunkan with Elisa on the TV program of Animax, which is different from what you're trying to say, I believe. Paladinoras' sentence is a bit closer, but a little unnatural. In the uniquely Japanese practice of reversing the sentence order, a very natural sentence would be:

初めてSCANDALの演奏を観たのは、テレビでANIMAX MUSIX SPRING 2010の瞬間センチメンタル(with ELISA)を観たときでした/だった。

Nice One


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独りきりなんて、人生勿体無い
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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:19 pm


Paladinoras

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
Yea, honestly I haven't been practicing my Japanese sentence structures as much as I'd like. I listen to a lot of Jap songs so I can pretty much tell what feels natural and not, but meh, I'm not a natural Japanese speaker, so I really can't be sure.

Eitherway, great to have you here tenjou ;D

And call me Pally guys XD


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Please, call me Pally. XD
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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:25 pm


chiy102

International Performer
International Performer
Thank you for the explanation, Tenjou-san. It seems to be beyond my current level of understanding, I'll try to comprehend it first before I write it into my letter. Still a long way to go~~ Hard Work

And thanks again, Pally. I'll try to bear this in mind.(^w^)

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:08 pm


chiy102

International Performer
International Performer
Hi, I have been trying to understand the sentence that Tenjou-san suggested, and I realize I don't understand the following part (well, I hope I understood the rest correctly):

...観たときでした。

I only understand that 観た is the past tense of 観る, so when とき is added, what does it change it into? Please forgive me if I am asking a stupid question.

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:58 am


Jibba

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
http://www.youtube.com/user/xJibba?feature=mhee
chiy102 wrote:

...観たときでした。

I only understand that 観た is the past tense of 観る, so when とき is added, what does it change it into? Please forgive me if I am asking a stupid question.

とき literally means time, but in English it is used in situations to say 'when'.

瞬間センチメンタル を観たときでした.
Means, when I saw Shunkan Sentimental.

The basic pattern is,
Verb Plain Form + とき
い-Adj + とき
な-Adj (with な) + とき
Noun (with の) + とき

*note: Negative or Past form of な-Adj/Noun just use the (じゃない、だった、じゃなかった)+ とき


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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted on Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:40 am


tenjounokaze

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
^ Excellent explanation Jibba, and thanks! Clap


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独りきりなんて、人生勿体無い
Life's a waste if you're all alone. (SCANDAL, Everybody Say YEAH)

Need help with Japanese? - Be sure to visit my Japanese thread: Class is now in session!
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