Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:26 am


Jibba

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So what are some criticisms of Vocaloids?
I'm doing a report on them for my Japanese Class, and I need a section on criticisms of Vocaloids.

All I can think of is that:
More composers may begin to use Vocaloids rather than real singers for their works, as they don't have to pay or find a singer, and can simply get their compositions published directly. This is a negative for singers and leads to the whole technology replacing jobs issue of the modern era.

Secondly, fans of Vocaloids are typically otaku's and they may be more attracted to the cute characters rather than the actual music. This is evident with all the popularity of Vocaloid figurines/makura (pillows)/Project Diva unlockable swimsuits/etc.
I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing but the first priority for Vocaloids should be music and kawaii appeal second.
Just to make clear, i'm a mixture of both, some songs I like for the music, some songs I like because of the PV, live concert, etc.

I really like Vocaloids and don't wish to offend who does too.
Just want some feedback on my 'criticisms' on Vocaloids and any additional ones.



Last edited by Jibba on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:39 am


bhebhecola08

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i heard that there is a robot from yamaha singing using the vocaloid synthesizer.


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:46 am


yuujin_21

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Moved to Anime and Manga.


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:15 pm


mikan

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Vocaloids are alright for me. I like them. (Miku, Luka, Rin and Len)

One criticism though, some songs lack feelings and emotions but it's a given knowing that it's a vocaloid. And the anime appearance is a defo a plus.


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:00 pm


rreizend

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^agree with mikan's second point there.

and i love it when people on Nico do covers of the song with them singing, makes it more human and nice to listen to.

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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:08 am


Jibba

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EugeneAng wrote:Moved to Anime and Manga.

I'm confused, Vocaloids are neither Anime nor Manga. >.<

rreizend wrote:i love it when people on Nico do covers of the song with them singing, makes it more human and nice to listen to.

The initial reason composers used Vocaloids in the first place is that they cannot find singers for their original works and they aren't very good singers themselves, hence used vocaloids.
With the talent on Nico, some composers such as supercell (with Nagi) and livetunes (with Claris) have recruited singers from Nico for their originals. Also individual artists like Piko are able to get a recording contract through covering Vocaloid songs on Nico.
So I would see this as a positive effect of the whole Original Vocaloid music with Nico combination.

Anyways, back on topic, I need criticisms


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:35 am


Noodles

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Jibba wrote:
EugeneAng wrote:Moved to Anime and Manga.

I'm confused, Vocaloids are neither Anime nor Manga. >.<

rreizend wrote:i love it when people on Nico do covers of the song with them singing, makes it more human and nice to listen to.

The initial reason composers used Vocaloids in the first place is that they cannot find singers for their original works and they aren't very good singers themselves, hence used vocaloids.
With the talent on Nico, some composers such as supercell (with Nagi) and livetunes (with Claris) have recruited singers from Nico for their originals. Also individual artists like Piko are able to get a recording contract through covering Vocaloid songs on Nico.
So I would see this as a positive effect of the whole Original Vocaloid music with Nico combination.

Anyways, back on topic, I need criticisms

王族BAND is formed by 3 guys that had videos on Nico right?

I wonder though, if Hatsune Miku is the voice of a software, then which band has the right to do a concert with her voice? @_@

I also like some of the songs, but to be honest, its like the band is missing a very very important member too, in Lives it might be cool because they can pre-record whatever they want Miku to say, but that leaves the element of surprise out of the picture.

Edit: here 2 videos to show how different 2 songs can be



and here




I like the second video WAY more


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:07 am


Jibba

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Absorb are an actual band. Check out Sakura no Ame, they have a version which they sing & a Hatsune Miku version, which was released through Nico. After it became popular in Nico, they were able to get a record deal and record their own version.
I like both but the absorb version is better, I reckon the miku voice could have been processed better.


The 'Melt' songs sound so different because they are in different keys for the female and male voices.
Also absorb's version has the amazing Tissue Hime on bass!

The Miku version of Melt was the first real Vocaloid song to become popular on Nico, so i respect it more in that sense.

Lale wrote:

I wonder though, if Hatsune Miku is the voice of a software, then which band has the right to do a concert with her voice? @_@


Interesting point, I guess they'd have to pay Crypton some money to use the voice.
If this was true then that would defeat the purpose using a Vocaloid instead a real singer on the basis that you don't need to pay the singer, only buy the software.
Most Vocaloid composers are content with just recording tracks and releasing them on iTunes/CD rather than performing live though.
This will change in the future, remember Hatsune Miku has only been around for 3 years.


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:18 am


bhebhecola08

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i am an avid fan of Hatsune Miku! <3


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:22 am


yurisaku

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hmm..
the vocaloid songs being composed are really nice..
but i like it better when people from nico douga start covering them :D
its more pleasant to the ears! Happy


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:27 pm


angelwings083

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i'm also a fan of VOCALOIDs..^^;;
and i agree, NND singers really make a great cover..Happy
especially the good-made chorus ones..^o^

and i also like them mainly because it gives you a variety of music from their creators using these VOCALOIDs..X3
the PVs and MMDs are also great too, it really shows creativity of PV artists..^o^
and yeah, sometimes their songs tend to lack emotions..><;;
but i guess the meaning behind their music is more important.. Smile

OT: have you guys heard of VOCAREVO?..^^;;
it seems to be a about the culture behind VOCALOIDs..^o^
and there is just currently an episode?..><
*although i can't seem to find it streamed anywhere..X3*
http://vocarevo.com/


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翼拡げ!~ o(≧∇≦)o || akichan~ (・ω・)=

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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:11 am


Jibba

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angelwings083 wrote:

OT: have you guys heard of VOCAREVO?..^^;;
it seems to be a about the culture behind VOCALOIDs..^o^
and there is just currently an episode?..><
*although i can't seem to find it streamed anywhere..X3*
http://vocarevo.com/

I watched it on keyhole, and ripped it.
Horrible Quality, but I haven't seen anyone from Japan rip a better version, so that's all there is, I think.


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:22 am


angelwings083

Shiroten Performer
Shiroten Performer
Jibba wrote:

I watched it on keyhole, and ripped it.
Horrible Quality, but I haven't seen anyone from Japan rip a better version, so that's all there is, I think.


wow~ thank you so much for sharing!.. Praise
and i wasn't able to catch the show from KH..^^;;


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♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥

がんばって SCANDAL! (´ω`★)

翼拡げ!~ o(≧∇≦)o || akichan~ (・ω・)=

♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥.∙: *∞* :∙.♥
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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:56 am


Jibba

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2nd Live Concert on the 9th of March, 2011

Some rehearsal footage of World's End Dancehall


Looks awesome! Clap


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:31 am


mikan

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OMG Luka X Miku is just too much for me. Nose Bleed


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:05 am


Jibba

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angelwings083 wrote:

OT: have you guys heard of VOCAREVO?..^^;;
it seems to be a about the culture behind VOCALOIDs..^o^
and there is just currently an episode?..><
*although i can't seem to find it streamed anywhere..X3*
http://vocarevo.com/

We're in luck, according to twitter reports, the show will be released on DVD on March, 25.


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:16 am


Jibba

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NEWS~!

Kaito Append released, it sounds brilliant. I think this will become very popular to increase the female audience for Vocaloids, expect some Kaito holograms in the next vocaloid concerts


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:53 pm


TanyaLilac

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http://scandalbaby.wordpress.com
I think, in the end, this is another form of demand creation -- like Hello Kitty. The original product has its uses, but Vocaloid became a brand in itself, that's perpetuated though so many things. Granted, I don't think it'll end up on the same level as Hello Kitty because it's hard for people outside the fandom to really get access to, and relate to.

In other words, I really doubt that technology will ever replace people's jobs in this respect -- a machine cannot capture the same emotion as that of a human. Music is also an artform, and it extends beyond technical efficiency and accuracy, which machines can deliver.

On a side note, I do find it interesting that the animations of Vocaloids at concerts are out of synch when they dance together. Imperfections are engineered into them to make them seem less artificial -- if they were in perfect time, I think people could feel uncomfortable because they seem more removed from reality in the physical (not virtual) sense. XD


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:58 am


Jibba

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Demo of Vocaloid 3 (update to the interface), Korean Vocaloid


I'm amazed at how real the voice sounds now, it sounds almost like a regular pop singer is singing. This will have a much bigger impact on the music industry as the vocals from a vocaloid are becoming much more realistic.

PS: If you are skeptical of the authenticity of the demo, proof that it is real is found
here at the press conference


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:53 am


ForsakenFalcon

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id personaly rather surport and fund a AI singing robot, then mass media produce and manufactored artist such as bieber or gaga......

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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:42 pm


Icepath

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I personally think that vocaloids make composing so much easier-- it's something like midi, except with a human voice that you can use as an instrument. it gives you an excuse to compose super long phrases without thinking or considering breathing coz it's a pre-arranged song.

however from a musical perspective i think what vocaloids lack the most is musicality, because they're perpetually on the same dynamic level-- loudness-- and there's also no real contrast in the singing because it's the same recording always used...


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:20 am


Jibba

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Just for your information, you can actually change the dynamic level with vocaloids. Composers can vary the dynamics for each note. From my experience with the software, you set the dynamics for the higher pitched notes higher and softer pitched notes lower, which imitates the way a real singer would sing, where they would stress the high notes.
Contrasts in singing banks have been developed, with things like Miku Append Soft and Dark released, and also there are banks still in the process of being developed, with Gumi Extend Power and Gumi Extend Whisper
more info for that here

ForsakenFalcon wrote:id personaly rather surport and fund a AI singing robot, then mass media produce and manufactored artist such as bieber or gaga......

Yes! This is the main benefit of vocaloids, it allows the composer, who actually created the music, to become famous rather than the composers for pop idols (ie:AKB), who just sit back and watch the idols become famous for the song which they created.


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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:59 am


greyithaka

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personally, it seems that the current Vocaloid craze is very much driven on hype. It's being famous for being famous, honestly how many people who heard of Hatsune Miku have actually listened to 'her' songs? I admit i got sucked into the whole thing and actually have quite a few Miku figurines and cds but at least I know i'm being suckered into the whole phenomenon and stopped myself from getting more and more of the same things. I can see the same thing pretty much happening with Black Rock Shooter as well. It came from a Miku song and now a whole slew of merchandise and fandom has sprouted for BRS. So its all pretty much advertising by companies and people to earn your money. In that sense I'm not against Vocaloids because thats what they're supposed to do, earn your money. You just got to realise that point and all will be fine. However I'm against people who are vocaloid haters for no reason other than the fact they are hating them cause they are popular when they barely know nuts about it. If you don't like the songs, no one is forcing you to listen to it, go listen to SCANDAL intead! they are way awesome!

just my 2 cents. =)

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Re: Vocaloids & Criticisms of Vocaloids
Posted on Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:42 am


Jibba

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@grey I'll have to be the exception to that, because the main reason I follow Vocaloids is purely for the music by the composers. Not interested in the figurines.

But I understand what you are trying to say. I touched on this point in my first post, where I said a criticism of the Vocaloid culture was the idolization of the actual cute characters themselves by Otakus rather than following the music.

With the whole Black Rock Shooter culture, the character of BRS, illustrated by Huke, is legally acknowledged as a different character to Hatsune Miku, illustrated by KEI. So any development of an anime, video game out of BRS is unrelated to Hatsune Miku in terms of copyright laws. It was inspired by Ryo's song Black Rock Shooter, where the PV was illustrated by Huke and it become one of the initial vocaloid songs to really become a hit on Nico Nico.


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vocaloids
Posted on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:43 am


greyithaka

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Caless Student
Jibba wrote:@grey I'll have to be the exception to that, because the main reason I follow Vocaloids is purely for the music by the composers. Not interested in the figurines.

But I understand what you are trying to say. I touched on this point in my first post, where I said a criticism of the Vocaloid culture was the idolization of the actual cute characters themselves by Otakus rather than following the music.

With the whole Black Rock Shooter culture, the character of BRS, illustrated by Huke, is legally acknowledged as a different character to Hatsune Miku, illustrated by KEI. So any development of an anime, video game out of BRS is unrelated to Hatsune Miku in terms of copyright laws. It was inspired by Ryo's song Black Rock Shooter, where the PV was illustrated by Huke and it become one of the initial vocaloid songs to really become a hit on Nico Nico.

sorry for repeating a point that you illustrated already. Because I wanted to highlight how separate the entity of music and image is for some people. I do play project diva and have Vocaloid cds and also figurines so Im in between. I'm also comparing the rise of Vocaloids in all their hype similar to BRS on how it got popular from a Vocaloid song. And I do know that Miku is a different character from BRS, in some places that kind of ignorance can get you killed, Wink

On a separate note I wonder how many people take the Vocaloids seriously as a musical force, and support them for the musical aspect. They do have huge light shows and concerts back in Japan but on the other hand fans all over are getting enraged over a Toyota Miku being misrepresented. Confused

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