SHfansub [Page 1 of 2]

SHfansub
Posted on Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:40 pm

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JosephRuela

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hey guys, I've been thinking
we need a Scandal fansub, for all the interviews, digest movies, and all that stuff of only one can speaks japanese understand
it would be great!!
we already have translation from blog
we could have translation from interviews too


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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:23 am

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bleachnlife

International Performer
International Performer
I agree with you! We need people who can actually sub SCANDAL video's but I think one thing is that we don't that many people here who can understand Japanese fluently nor have an idea on how to sub videos.... I wish we were big as Soshified or one of those bigger band fan forums where people actually sign up to assigned roles and provide such subbed videos... and what not around the forum...


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SCANDAL Haruna Happy SCANDAL Mami Nice One SCANDAL Tomomi  LOL  SCANDAL Rina UHUH! SCANDAL
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:47 pm

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yuujin_21

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We do have members who do translations and subbing,but we do not have an "official" translating team.


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"Bokaru HARUNA desu!"
"Gitaa MAMI desu!"
"Beesu TOMOMI desu!"
"Doraamusu RINA desu!"
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:53 pm

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amz7250

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we could create a team, that will b great,

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:05 pm

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yuujin_21

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We've tried.But the translators had too much on their hands,what with videos,the speed of the updates of the blog,etc etc...


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"Bokaru HARUNA desu!"
"Gitaa MAMI desu!"
"Beesu TOMOMI desu!"
"Doraamusu RINA desu!"
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:15 pm

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amz7250

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Banned
cant we do this, the translator only translate the video, then we could have someone 2 put it in the video,


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tnxs 2 thoseguiltyeyes


yea fam, Spraying SCANDAL 2 the world
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:52 pm

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
I'd assume the people suggesting this would want to sponsor this project then?


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In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:22 pm

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JosephRuela

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
well, I don't speak japanese, but I can help to make the subs or put then in the videos, or upload then
but the translation part is impossible!! =/


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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:22 pm

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
Translating is extremely time consuming, which is why people generally frown upon machine translations (they suck for one thing), but the person translating must have some grasp of the nuances of the language so it flows properly when translated.

You can take a look at the blog translation, some of the older ones by tenjounokaze really show it (not saying current translators are bad, but tenjou is really good)

If you really just want to translate for the sake of translating then just use a machine. Until we get widespread support (maybe financially as well) we are unable to attract the people with right skillset to do this. If you are not going to something well, might as well not do it at all, that's what I'm saying.

Remember how many videos have been released, the sheer quantity of releases makes this a really tough job to start off with. You could do a really time consuming voting process by the members of this forum to see which video they want to see subbed which would delay the entire process, but it is nigh impossible to sub each and every video that has been released, not to mention someone has to constantly grab raws since they get taken down almost instantly nowadays.

tl;dr: I feel that we just lack the infrastructure to do this, unless a translator steps forward (they are the key to this project anyway, video editors and others are secondary TBH) who is willing to do this, I'm afraid this will go nowhere for now.


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In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:55 pm

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Hammer

Indie Artist
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Actually I think @bleachnlife post really sums it up, it is a really great idea, all of us would like that i am certain, but I don't think we have enough people to do so. It would be too much for just a few, as the above post stated "the sheer quantity of releases makes this a really tough job to start off with.".

But anyway, if some translators shows up wanting to do this, well awesome, but if not, I don't blame them, I wouldn't compromise myself if I was the only one, or one of few, because I know I wouldn't do it. Maybe it is not even because I don't have the time, but I just wouldn't want to spend hours everyday translating. That is why we need a lot of people, to share the work.

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:00 pm

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JosephRuela

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well, fansubs are much more bigger than the one that I proposed
they subbed a lot o animes, and live act
we just need to make a team
and are a lot of forms to have money with this
donations, Advertisement, some filehosts paid you for a certain number of downloads
but is just an idea UHUH!


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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:11 pm

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Aosaru

International Performer
International Performer
NathanielG wrote:Translating is extremely time consuming, which is why people generally frown upon machine translations (they suck for one thing), but the person translating must have some grasp of the nuances of the language so it flows properly when translated.

I agree. I translated a video for a friend once that was 23 minutes long and it took almost 2 hours for me just to type up the translation(with timing typed on the side). I like the idea of having a SH sub team but I think there are a lot of people that don't have the time...and some who do have time probably don't know enough Japanese to translate like me.


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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:43 pm

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
JosephRuela wrote:well, fansubs are much more bigger than the one that I proposed
they subbed a lot o animes, and live act
we just need to make a team
and are a lot of forms to have money with this
donations, Advertisement, some filehosts paid you for a certain number of downloads
but is just an idea UHUH!

One, we lack the numbers for this to help financially, if someone is really serious about supporting this, I'm talking about taking money out of their own pocket and financing this. Don't expect to get any returns from this, I'm not trying to shoot down this suggestion but a lot of times people just don't think about the feasibility at all. Let's say hey you need to spend like 5 hours to translate this 1 hour video, can I pay you $50 (this is like maybe 5,000 to 10,000 downloads needed to get this kind of payout) for that? Long videos might take longer since you do need to watch it a couple of times, translate them, then edit it again so it flows properly.

Like "let's fly to Mars" (this is a good suggestion but totally unfeasible currently). Take into account the costs involved, time involved, people involved, skills involved, if people don't think about these things before they suggest, all they will get from this is "Good suggestion" comments and then the suggestion just gets shelved and/or buried under the pile of stuff that happens.

Also my final point in this post, you know with all the new IP laws and stuff flying around recently. If this idea goes ahead but we receive a C&D letter from Sony's attorneys, who takes responsibility? Will SH want to bear that burden? Remember we are recognized by SCANDAL now, and none of us here have the resources to fight a multinational corporation in a legal battle, you need to remember this.

I am trying to be real here, if you are truly serious about this project, you need to think about all the different angles. SH is a public fan forum that has been recognized by the band that we are all fans of, I do not think we should do anything that could potentially jeopardize this.


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In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:15 am

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JosephRuela

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
NathanielG wrote:
Also my final point in this post, you know with all the new IP laws and stuff flying around recently. If this idea goes ahead but we receive a C&D letter from Sony's attorneys, who takes responsibility? Will SH want to bear that burden? Remember we are recognized by SCANDAL now, and none of us here have the resources to fight a multinational corporation in a legal battle, you need to remember this.

I am trying to be real here, if you are truly serious about this project, you need to think about all the different angles. SH is a public fan forum that has been recognized by the band that we are all fans of, I do not think we should do anything that could potentially jeopardize this.

Making subs for videos it's not illegal, the videos already have been in the media section
and for the official stuffs we can put only the subs for download
we already have some subs here in the forum
http://www.scandal-heaven.com/t5132-scandal-digest-movie-english-subs


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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:43 am

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
If it really isn't illegal, why is Sony (and the respective Japanese broadcasting companies) taking down videos on youtube?

Regarding official stuff, sure you can sub them, but are you going to sponsor purchasing of the raws?

Just try, get a subbed SCANDAL video, post it on youtube allow it to be publicly accessed, and then see whether Sony and/or a Japanese broadcasting company takes it down (eg. NHK or some other company). If it isn't illegal, then they have no right to take it down. You know that even though you subbed it, the video content is copyright of whatever company broadcast/produced the video.

Anyway this is kinda going off topic (since you are ignoring the rest of my previous post and just countering one part), if you can't provide better support for this idea, I just don't see it happening.


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In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:50 am

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Plutonium

International Performer
International Performer
Usually for anime fansub groups - you receive a letter from the company that licensed it to remove and stop distributing the files before they take action. I've got no idea about how things go for these kinds of stuff.

I also remember when I helped make subtitles for Soul Eater, we also got another letter saying to stop posting the subtitle files for distribution.


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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:52 am

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
Yes, and Sony has been notoriously fast to act on things like this, the PV was taken down within 24 hours of being posted up. If you were to link that content to our site, we would now have put a target on our backs and this forum could be shut down (there are various legal terms like aiding and abetting distribution of copyrighted materials etc.)


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In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:16 am

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Hammer

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
^Yes but we are not talking about linking content to our site, if subbing was that much of a problem, then we would provably have received some warning by now at least. After all we do have some stuff translated.

Also, I agree with your first post, but the second no.

Firstly, we are talking about fans doing translations, so about the cost, well yes I agree we should make some donation, but disregarding that, it is not necessary, after all that is why it is called a fan sub, done by fans, for example I don't know how many of you here played mother 3, but all the translation was done by fans, there were donors? Yes there were, but that's why they were donors.
Otherwise we can most certainly get someone to do it, just pay them.

Also, you say that people need to think it through, yes I agree at least some sort of plan is usually nice, but even so, sometimes there are people willing to do something, but no one takes initiative, if the mods think it is inappropriate for whatever reason, they will say it, simple. Anyway, at least in regard to this, I don't think it is wrong to at least say something as he did. And two things can happen here, one is no one wants to commit to this, for whatever reason (I can think of many, like time and patience specially), and end of discussion, the other is we actually have people who want to try and we might get something nice.


I am trying to be real here, if you are truly serious about this project, you need to think about all the different angles. SH is a public fan forum that has been recognized by the band that we are all fans of, I do not think we should do anything that could potentially jeopardize this.

Ok if you follow this line of thinking then pretty much everything we do can be considered jeopardizing. We shouldn't post any videos because some company can get angry, what about the links for the PV's, or all the translations we have here?

I think your first post was nice and said everything that had to be said, I agree with pretty much all of it, but the second I'm sorry but I believe you stretched it a bit too much, trying to simply deny this proposal.

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:20 am

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Plutonium

International Performer
International Performer
NathanielG wrote:If you were to link that content to our site, we would now have put a target on our backs and this forum could be shut down (there are various legal terms like aiding and abetting distribution of copyrighted materials etc.)

I disagree with this statement completely. Until the day SOPA and PIPA or whatever it's called now comes into effect, no site that has those links on it will be taken down due to 'aiding' or 'abetting'. Unless the uploader had conversed with mc or Eugene (the admins), we are not liable in any way.

Like now, embedded videos on youtube that are taken down. Only the videos are taken down, and when people go to the places where it's embedded, it'll say that the video is no longer available due to copyright reasons. The websites themselves are not taken down, and why would they? It's not them who uploaded the video for distribution in the first place.


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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:28 am

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
Translations not = subbing. What JosephRuala suggested is alright in that we only post the subtitle files, not the video with subs in it. AFAIK, no US (or any other country's) company licenses Japanese interview videos and does subs for them, so subtitle files for those are alright unlike anime, since if they get the license they will do subtitles for the DVDs, and by posting subtitles for those you violate their terms.

Also, if you are aware of what is going on in the world currently, it isn't about a company getting angry, it is about the entire media industry with their clout that can pretty much shut down anybody they want. I am not the owner of this forum so I can't say how much risk they are willing to expose themselves to, though it is obvious they take precautions by not allowing certain things to be posted here. Also since the title of this thread is SHfansub, the poster obviously wants it to be linked to SH, so I'm just trying to be wary about these. After all it is better to err on the side of caution for now.

@Plutonium: I was in the middle of this post when you posted, currently no we are not (but as a side note if you are aware of such a thing happening on the site, it is the responsibility of the site owner to remove them), but if you were to do a strictly "SHfansub" thing, we will be distributing said materials. Also in the statement you quoted the term "content" was referring to videos that will be released under "SHfansub" if this idea gets off.

Anyway, I don't want the discussion to be headed towards SOPA/PIPA/ACTA etc. I just raised it as a cautionary issue. If we can resolve the main issues (mainly of translators, manpower and possibly funding), we can move on to whether any of this will be in violation of any laws.


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In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:45 am

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Hammer

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
NathanielG wrote:Translations not = subbing. What JosephRuala suggested is alright in that we only post the subtitle files, not the video with subs in it. AFAIK, no US company licenses Japanese interview videos and does subs for them, so subtitle files for those are alright unlike anime, since if they get the license they will do subtitles for the DVDs, and by posting subtitles for those you violate their terms.

Also, if you are aware of what is going on in the world currently, it isn't about a company getting angry, it is about the entire media industry with their clout that can pretty much shut down anybody they want. I am not the owner of this forum so I can't say how much risk they are willing to expose themselves to, though it is obvious they take precautions by not allowing certain things to be posted here. Also since the title of this thread is SHfansub, the poster obviously wants it to be linked to SH, so I'm just trying to be wary about these. After all it is better to err on the side of caution for now.


You do have a point in the first paragraph, I don't know if he meant just posting the translation or actually subbing the video and putting here, maybe it was wrong choice of words Onion Smile . I assumed it was just subtitle files like it has been done here a lot of times.

About the second, well Plutonium post said a lot already, but I have to agree that sometimes it is better to be cautions. As you said, I am not the owner of this forum as well, but at least in regard to this, I think there is not much of a problem. And honestly, I think that by being a fan forum, and the biggest outside Japan at least, we are already somewhat "exposed", meaning that if we did a lot of non-legal stuff like not giving a damn about piracy for example, we would already have had problems, specially now that the girls have recognized us. And we have translations here, and at least from what I know there were no complains from the media industry.

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:49 am

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
Yes, the original idea I believe was actually doing full video editing and stuff with subtitles in the videos themselves, which will be released under a "SHfansub" banner. I'm just saying we can't really do that, as my previous posts have pointed out.

In order of feasibility: (all these hinge on getting a person who is willing to commit to the project)
1. Do a transcript of a video (this is probably the safest)
2. Do a subtitle file
3. Do full subtitles which will be embedded in the video itself

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:53 am

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Plutonium

International Performer
International Performer
Sony/TV Channel/Broadcasters own the content to the Lives/Interviews/etc. You don't need a company to license it to have ownership of it.

Like I mentioned earlier. Translations in the form of text are considered subbing. subbing = subtitling = putting subtitles to a video. (Did you read my Soul Eater example? It was a true story.)


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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:57 am

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
From what you posted earlier, what I gathered was that the rights to subtitles belongs to the license holder rather than the company that produced it (since obviously they won't subtitle it in their own country, not in English anyway)

Also you said subtitles file, which I would assume meaning a file that played when you play the video as well. It isn't a text file or word document like in a transcript.

Anyway, if what overall you said is right, then it seems you are totally against this. I am trying to make this idea feasible to work with instead of shutting it down completely.


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In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:00 am

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Hammer

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
Meh... I think just the subtitle files would be fine. Less work (well although there is still a lot of work xD), and whoever wants to watch with them, well up to them to make it work.

A transcript of a video... hmmm could be, I think it depends on how far we want to go with this, but I still think subtitles files are no problem. *EDIT* Well not sure now after what plutonium said, it could be different for this kind of stuff. We do have some subtitles files here, maybe they don't really mind, or they didn't see it yet, or they don't care in this amount.


Still lol, back to the main problem, people here who are willing to do this xD.

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