Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:12 pm

yurisaku

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Erm.. I encountered another question .stars.

I hope you really don't mind .toj.

Sentence 1:
"This present is for Kurumi."
このプレゼントはくるみのために。 <-- Is this even right?

(Additional question, when do I use 「のために」 and 「ため」only?)

Now.. I wanna know if it differs with..

Sentence 2:
"I slept for 5 hours."

I think I'm gonna be the one asking the most number of questions here. I really wanted to learn but I still don't have the money to enroll myself in a language school. But once I get a job, I'm really gonna enroll myself to one T_T

P.S.

Another question .please.

When do I use って?
I always use it on Twitter. But I really don't know if I'm using it right XD Plus, what I learn on Twitter are slang Nihongo so I'm not really sure if that's nice LOL

http://www.twitter.com/yurisaku14

ありがとうございます!

EDIT:
ohmygosh I'm really sorry for this
.please.

Another question..

Someone told me that to make comparisons, I use the format 「something」より「something」がうまい。
But someone also told me that it should be 「something」より「something」のほうがうまい。
Uhm, does it make any difference? Plus, is there a kanji for ほう?

.nosebleed.

ありがとう!



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:27 pm

chiy102

chiy102

International Performer
International Performer
Jibba wrote:
chiy102 wrote:

...観たときでした。

I only understand that 観た is the past tense of 観る, so when とき is added, what does it change it into? Please forgive me if I am asking a stupid question.

とき literally means time, but in English it is used in situations to say 'when'.

瞬間センチメンタル を観たときでした.
Means, when I saw Shunkan Sentimental.

The basic pattern is,
Verb Plain Form + とき
い-Adj + とき
な-Adj (with な) + とき
Noun (with の) + とき

*note: Negative or Past form of な-Adj/Noun just use the (じゃない、だった、じゃなかった)+ とき

I see. Than may I ask in this case とき, should it be written in Kanji (時) or hiragana? Is there a rule to follow?

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:32 pm

thoseguiltyeyes

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@yurisaku: I apologize; I can't answer all of your questions since it's pretty late/early here and can't stay up for much longer, but I can answer your last two questions. Can someone else handle the first two, please? Happy


So, って is pretty much a quoting particle. It's typically used when you're quoting someone.

Example:
HARUNA says this to me:

「明日、コンサートに行きます。」
-Tomorrow, I'm going to a concert.

So I can then tell someone else:

「HARUNAは、明日コンサートに行くって。」
-HARUNA says she's going to a concert tomorrow.
And it also can be used in place of the quotation particle と before a verb like 言う.
「HARUNAはコーヒーを飲みすぎたって言ってた。」
-HARUNA said she drank too much coffee.

As for comparisons, the format is like: "「A」 のほうが 「B」 より 「insert adjective/etc.」です。" It's like saying, "A is more 「something」 than B." The order of A or B doesn't matter, but whatever is in front of のほうが is the one you prefer the most, and the one you prefer the least goes with より. And yes, there is a kanji for ほう; it's 方.

Example:
お茶の方がコーヒーよりうまいです。 or  コーヒーよりお茶の方がうまいです。
-Tea is tastier than coffee.
And yeah, you can also compare using just より. The same rule applies; you pair より with the one that you prefer the least.
お茶はコーヒーよりうまいです。
-Coffee is less tastier than tea.
Also, if like, someone asks you if coffee or tea is tastier and you say tea/your answer can be understood without the full comparison, you can also just use のほうが, pairing it with the one that you like the best.
お茶の方がうまいです。
-Tea is tastier (than coffee).
I hope that was clear enough! Happy



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:57 pm

Jibba

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yurisaku wrote:
Sentence 1:
"This present is for Kurumi."
このプレゼントはくるみのために。 <-- Is this even right?

(Additional question, when do I use 「のために」 and 「ため」only?)

Now.. I wanna know if it differs with..

Sentence 2:
"I slept for 5 hours."
With the first sentence, it is nearly right. You don't need the に at the end of ため. You change it to ためだ, because it is a noun.
This one is a hard one to explain, so i scanned my textbook's explanation which is pretty good.
日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu - Page 5 DSC01907

As you can see, you use ために when indicating the reason for doing something else. You put the reason with ために
eg: 日本を旅行するために、お金をためている。(Literally: In order to travel to Japan, I'm saving money)
You put the reason for saving money, which is to travel to Japan, with ために.
You should understand this better by reading the examples on the page.

I don't think you can use this form with the second sentence.
I think that will just be
五時間、ねました。

chiy102 wrote:
I see. Than may I ask in this case とき, should it be written in Kanji (時) or hiragana? Is there a rule to follow?
It can be written in either hiragana or Kanji, it doesn't matter.

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:30 am

chiy102

chiy102

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Jibba wrote:
chiy102 wrote:
I see. Than may I ask in this case とき, should it be written in Kanji (時) or hiragana? Is there a rule to follow?
It can be written in either hiragana or Kanji, it doesn't matter.

I see. Thank you for your patience and explanation. (^w^)

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:32 am

tenjounokaze

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Thanks for all the great explanations, Jade and Jibba! .clap.

@Yuri-chan, another common use for って is its function as a question-marker in casual speech. For example, if someone says a word you don't understand, you can ask (for example, if the word is 記者会見 - きしゃかいけん, press conference): 記者会見って?・記者会見って何?

Hope this helps! Nice one



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:09 pm

yurisaku

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Wow thanks for the answers everyone! So very helpful!! Uwaaaa!!! .clap.

@Tenjou-sensei -- that was what I actually picked up in Twitter xD

Follow-up question! XD

HARUNA says this to me:

「明日、コンサートに行きます。」
-Tomorrow, I'm going to a concert.

So I can then tell someone else:

「HARUNAは、明日コンサートに行くって。」
-HARUNA says she's going to a concert tomorrow.

uhm, in the first sentence, it was 行きます。。 then on the second, it became 行くって。。
hmm.. i wanna ask if the 行くって can still be converted to polite form?

ありがとうございます皆さん!



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:19 pm

LieAnn

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Whoa so many questions that was answered already! This thread is so great.. ^_^
I haven't opened my notes for a week now because of work and I just got the chance to do so today. And I saw some questions I scribbled a few days ago:

1.) How to/when to use な-adjectives?
2.) What is the meaning of な at the end of a sentence? Is it a particle too? I always see that at mangas. Example: よし、みんあうまくたくれた
3.) What is the difference between 開きます(あきます - Vi) / 開けます(あけます - Vt) and 開きます(ひらきます - Vi/Vt). I'm quite confused 'cause they both mean the same word (Open).

My questions are so kind of.. for noobs actually. Haha. But I don't have much time to learn it myself nowadays so I want to ask for your help guys. Thanks! .hail.



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:42 pm

Paladinoras

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1. Erm, I'm not sure what you mean by な-adjectives here... '.'

2. And as far as I know, na isn't a particle, it's more of one of those end sounds Japanese people use to express their emotions. Kind of like how some people would use nee at the end of their sentence to ask a question although the sentence isn't really a question in the first place. It's really hard to explain, maybe tenjou can explain better than me. >.<

3. Generally, in Japanese, when you change from an i-form to an e-form, is to express being able to do something. So the difference between 開きます(あきます - Vi) and 開けます(あけます - Vt) is that the first one would say "I opened something" while if you use the second one, it'll be "I can open something".

As for the last one, hirakimasu, it's probably another way to read the kanji.



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 pm

tenjounokaze

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yurisaku wrote:
uhm, in the first sentence, it was 行きます。。 then on the second, it became 行くって。。
hmm.. i wanna ask if the 行くって can still be converted to polite form?

Yuri-chan, the polite form of って is と言う、so it would become (in writing)と言ってました・と言いました・と言った。(was saying (polite), said (polite), said (casual))

LieAnn wrote:

1.) How to/when to use な-adjectives?
2.) What is the meaning of な at the end of a sentence? Is it a particle too? I always see that at mangas. Example: よし、みんあうまくたくれた
3.) What is the difference between 開きます(あきます - Vi) / 開けます(あけます - Vt) and 開きます(ひらきます - Vi/Vt). I'm quite confused 'cause they both mean the same word (Open).

LieAnn, な adjectives should be used when you want to or feel the need to use them - there's no real limit on when you can or when you can't use them. In terms of how TO use them:
Spoiler:

Paladinoras wrote:
2. And as far as I know, na isn't a particle, it's more of one of those end sounds Japanese people use to express their emotions. Kind of like how some people would use nee at the end of their sentence to ask a question although the sentence isn't really a question in the first place. It's really hard to explain, maybe tenjou can explain better than me. >.<

Pally, your explanation for #2 is partially correct. な used at the end of a sentence is most often a substitute for ね, mostly used by male speakers, to indicate emotion. There are at least 5 definitive ways to use な as a sentence-ending particle (it actually is considered a particle, btw):
Spoiler:

Paladinoras wrote:3. Generally, in Japanese, when you change from an i-form to an e-form, is to express being able to do something. So the difference between 開きます(あきます - Vi) and 開けます(あけます - Vt) is that the first one would say "I opened something" while if you use the second one, it'll be "I can open something".

As for the last one, hirakimasu, it's probably another way to read the kanji.

Also partially correct. If you're talking about normal -う verbs (歩く、笑う、飛ぶ、走る、etc.), the ます form changes from います to えます to indicate potential. (歩きますー>歩けます、走りますー>走れます、etc.) However, your example of あきます and あけます does not indicate potential, but rather the transitivity of the verb. あく is the intransitive, while あける is transitive (see page 4 of this thread for more info about Transitive/Intransitive verbs).

The difference between ひらく(開く) and あく(開く) is simply: あく is an intransitive verb meaning "to be open", while ひらく can be either an intransitive verb meaning "to be open", OR a transitive verb meaning "to open". This can be very confusing, and takes time and practice to master the differences. Two things to keep in mind when trying to tell the difference:
Spoiler:
Anyway, I feel like I need more coffee after all this! .dance.

Keep the questions coming guys! I'm on a roll today. .hora.



Last edited by tenjounokaze on Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:00 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Hid the lengthy explanations to conserve space)

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:12 pm

LieAnn

LieAnn

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Paladinoras and Tenjou-sensei, thanks for the help! Haha. Though right now I can't absorb any of your explanations 'cause I'm so sleepy. Haha. And sorry if my questions made you quite stressed. Hehe. .please.



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:48 pm

yurisaku

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hmm.. okay imma ask again! XD thanks so much to this thread, i'm learning!! :D

1.) What is the difference when you say 今日 only and 今日は?
Ex. 今日、メロンパンを食べた! ・ 今日はメロンパンを食べた!

2.) What is the past form for いる and ある?

3.) How do you say when something is inside?
Ex. The girl is inside the house.
I often see the kanji 中 and 家 if I'm not mistaken.. but I don't really get how it works DX

ありがとうございます!!



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:15 pm

chiy102

chiy102

International Performer
International Performer
Just trying to apply what I learned, and please feel free to correct or add on if I'm wrong.

For ある, past tense is あった. る is replaced with った. From what I know, to conjugate the 五段動詞 to its past tense, the verb itself needs to be categorized into 4 categories according to the last character. For ある, る is the last character so its corresponding conjugation is った.

The table to conjugate is as follows:
1) す  -> した
2) く  -> いた and   ぐ -> いだ
3) む、ぶ、 ぬ  -> んだ
4) る、う、つ -> った

As for いる, the past tense is いた. For 一段動詞, simply replace る with た to conjugate to the past tense.

Hope I am right~~

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:02 pm

Paladinoras

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yurisaku wrote:hmm.. okay imma ask again! XD thanks so much to this thread, i'm learning!! :D

1.) What is the difference when you say 今日 only and 今日は?
Ex. 今日、メロンパンを食べた! ・ 今日はメロンパンを食べた!

2.) What is the past form for いる and ある?

3.) How do you say when something is inside?
Ex. The girl is inside the house.
I often see the kanji 中 and 家 if I'm not mistaken.. but I don't really get how it works DX

ありがとうございます!!

1) The two sentences are similar, but one is active and the other passive. The first sentence "今日、メロンパンを食べた!" means "I ate melon bread today!" while the other reads as "Today I ate melon bread!". Basically it's just shifting the focus between the subjects.

2) Same as any. Iru becomes Imashita, Aru becomes, Arimashita. Of course, both words need to be in their -imasu forms first.

chiy102 also has a point there, Aru does change into Atta, but it really depends on the usage. Iru can also become Itta, depending on the kanji. 行った reads as "itta" as well as "言った".The first means to go somewhere while the second means to say something. Both in past tense. I'm assuming that he is asking about いる as in います、

Atta is slightly more complicated. 何があったの? basically means What's up? but if you want to say something like "That pen used to be there", you can't substitute atta for arimashita, as far as I know.

3) 中 means inside, 家 means house. 家 reads as "uchi" while "中" reads as "naka".

To say "That girl is inside the house", I'd probably say "彼女は家の中にいます。”





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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:08 am

mafu

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i really want to learn how to speak Nihonggo..



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:37 pm

yurisaku

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Thanks for all the answers guys!! LOVE

@mafu -- try to start with memorizing hiragana and katakana.. it's very essential to learning nihongo i think.. and also, try these:

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar
- i learned almost everything about grammar there.. you just have to be patient, plus, apply what you learn, then ask other people if you're doing the right thing.. then you'll learn bit by bit :D (patience.. therefore, is really important xD)

http://buna.yorku.ca/japanese/
- this was a link given by my friend studying there.. all the notes are there.. :D

http://www.yesjapan.com/YJ6/
- then if you hate paragraphs, texts, etc etc.. try this one xD it's lighter than the first two :D



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:50 pm

chiy102

chiy102

International Performer
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Thanx for the clarification, Pally. Updating my own knowledge vault...

@yurisaku: Hey, currently I'm also referring to the same website to learn about the grammar. But I'm only at the verb section at the moment. Nice website right? (^w^)

@mafu: To add on to yurisaku's suggestion, ask questions here frequently. We can all learn from one another.

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:18 pm

Paladinoras

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No problem guys. I'm still studying Japanese too, so I'm learning a couple of new things being here and refreshing old ones helping you guys ;D



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:26 pm


zero_wow

Caless Student
Caless Student
i also have interest , i come from HK, i have learn over one year japanese,

宜しくお願いします!!

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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:55 pm

320x200

320x200

Mainstream Artist
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Is this the right grammar for saying you did something for something? Ex...

I went to Japan for lunch.
ランチのために日本へいきました.

The part I'm unsure about is the "のために", because I've heard things like 'for so-and-so' explained as just adding に on the end of the person's name...



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:19 pm

tenjounokaze

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320x200 wrote:Is this the right grammar for saying you did something for something? Ex...

I want to Japan for lunch.
ランチのために日本へいきました.

The part I'm unsure about is the "のために", because I've heard things like 'for so-and-so' explained as just adding に on the end of the person's name...

320, ために refers to reasoning for doing something, or in some cases (usually when it's without the に particle) refers to the reason something will happen or has happened (similar to the particle から, but more than "because" it means more like "in order to"). For the reason for doing something, your sentence is correct (very funny as well - wish I could go to Japan just for lunch! ROFL ), as for the reason something happened, it's usually written with a comma added like so:

宝物(たからもの)を見つけるため、旅立ちました(たびだちました)。
I went on a trip in order to find treasure/In order to find treasure, I went on a trip.

Thanks for your question! Nice one



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:12 am

320x200

320x200

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Thank you very much for your answer! Happy



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:46 am

guueen

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i wanna learn Japanese too...Happy



LOVE i always go "kyaaaaaaaaaa~" for SCANDAL LOVE
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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:02 pm

yurisaku

yurisaku

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question!! :D

im confused with ~ておく and ~てある
can you elaborate when should i use them? i heard they are like preparations for future actions but.. i dunno.. can't understand T_T

another question! :D

when do i use.. i know they are conditionals but im confused as to when i have to use which ^_^
~ば
~なら
~たら

thank youuuu~~ XD



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Re: 日本語教室 - Nihongo Kyoushitsu
Posted Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:41 am

Brizuka14

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going to study japanese in summer vacation!!!



What's great about SCANDAL? well it's.....SCANDALIOUS!
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