SHfansub [Page 2 of 2]

Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:14 am

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
It actually does depend on how much you want to honor another country's copyright laws. In Japan, companies that produce material eg. music/video/games have nigh absolute control over the usage of material.

For one, Japanese companies do indeed have control over adaptation rights of works which includes translations, but there's a provision about quantities produced, as long as we are not producing so much that it feeds public demand, the work is not considered "published", and so will not violate the copyright act.



In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:15 am

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Plutonium

International Performer
International Performer
If anyone remembers the Digest movie video that we did, I can tell you those links are still active. We used the tag [SCANDAL-HEAVEN] on it.

Someone also ended up redoing it and posting it on youtube. It doesn't seem like it has been taken down yet. I'm not against it, but I'm also not completely for it, it's just not something I think will be plausible without dedicated translators.

@Hammer: We have a few people here who can do everything but translate. There has been 2(?) threads about this in the past - search those up and you'll see I've posted the same thing in all of them!



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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:21 am

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
The problem with how laws are made is that they are allowed (unless it clearly violates the act) until there is a precedent for not allowing it (some kind of landmark case), then future cases will be based on that decision (which would suck).

The wording in the Copyright Act is such that it allows a judge to interpret what it means by "reasonably sufficient quantities to meet the public demand" (Article 3, Section 1), which could be anywhere from 1 to 1,000,000 (You can fight this if you get the proper market research and prove that what you are doing does not meet public demand).



In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:42 am

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Hammer

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
@Plutonium Yes I know there are, and really good at that, but yes, I was referring to translators being the main point here and I also agree. What I have been trying to say this entire time, that without dedicated translators, there is no point in giving any more ideas or trying to give other reasons as to why to do this or not to do this.

As NathanielG said in his first post, if we don't have the infrastructure to support this then this is going nowhere, but, I don't see any harm of every now and then reviving this issue. Maybe we get people to translate and we can see if it is possible or not. Anyway, as I said before, this is not up to me to decide.

EDIT*

@NathanielG So you are saying that if we managed to go on with this plan, we could pass that "reasonably sufficient quantities"? Hmmm could be, that would be up to the owners to decide.But it all comes down to if Sony is bothered by it... they are bothered by youtube videos of pretty much everything relating to SCANDAL, so I can imagine they being bothered by this, but even so... they never bothered us, so at least for what we do, and translating is part of it, at least in small part, they don't seem to care.

And we have at least some of the girls support Thumbs Onion


Gawd you people type fast.

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:50 am

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
Yes we could, technically people who upload could fight against Sony if they wish, but in the long run they will lose, Sony has billions of dollars and an army of lawyers working for them. An individual can only last so long against a corporation before the individual runs out of resources. Corporations will win legal battles by virtue of attrition.

Anyway the key thing is to get translators, if not we can "hire" translators, again it does depend on how serious you are about this issue. Most, if not all the people who translate on SH do it when they have time and on a voluntary basis. I do prefer that we get someone who already has knowledge of SCANDAL as well as being a fan for them. Made by a fan for fans is the best way to go for things like this, but the issue is to find the right person(s) to do it.



In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:02 am

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Hammer

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
Anyway the key thing is to get translators, if not we can "hire" translators, again it does depend on how serious you are about this issue. Most, if not all the people who translate on SH do it when they have time and on a voluntary basis. I do prefer that we get someone who already has knowledge of SCANDAL as well as being a fan for them. Made by a fan for fans is the best way to go for things like this, but the issue is to find the right person(s) to do it.

Gawd this is perfect. All that needs to be said at the moment in my opinion, everybody should just think about everything that was said till now, but this here is the main issue. Great post, all of it actually.

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:35 am

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bleachnlife

International Performer
International Performer
Obviously things are different with different music records (sorry for using another SNSD example) you see a ton of subbed SNSD videos and SM entertainment doesn't seem to mind or thats how it seems. Maybe if someone is willing to write letter to Sony regarding this issue maybe things will change, though I highly doubt it possible to go forward any further. Unless we share it through the forum and forum only by download links but that plays us in a bad light here as using copyrighted material without permission is prohibited... and we're trying to support SCANDAL legally...

*sigh* so many things holding us back... Only if Sony or SCANDAL gave us permission things would be some much easier... =_= If we all learnt Japanese maybe it'd help XD we'd all be translators XDDDD

Maybe we could put up a list of interviews SCANDAL has done and we could vote on which one to sub?



SCANDAL Haruna Happy SCANDAL Mami Nice One SCANDAL Tomomi  LOL  SCANDAL Rina UHUH! SCANDAL
SCANDAL brightens my everyday

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:08 pm

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Hammer

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
NathanielG suggested a system of voting, but as he said that would delay the entire process and it gets a bit more complicated, and needs more organisation and someone each week (?) gathering all the videos of the week and putting them up for voting. But it can be done, at least it would be a solution for the amount of videos we have.


Yes... if we only could all learn japanese Sad well then we wouldn't need to translate =DDDD Onion Wahaha

Only if Sony or SCANDAL gave us permission things would be some much easier.

That would be perfect xD.

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:27 pm

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
Well... if you want to do a voting system, voters have to watch the videos first or somebody has to watch the videos and provide some kind of synopsis. I don't think voters should make uninformed choices since this could potentially be a time waster for translators if the video voted on was a bad choice.



In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:26 pm

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JosephRuela

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
NathanielG wrote:
Anyway the key thing is to get translators, if not we can "hire" translators, again it does depend on how serious you are about this issue. Most, if not all the people who translate on SH do it when they have time and on a voluntary basis. I do prefer that we get someone who already has knowledge of SCANDAL as well as being a fan for them. Made by a fan for fans is the best way to go for things like this, but the issue is to find the right person(s) to do it.

Clap

Yes, the original idea I believe was actually doing full video editing and stuff with subtitles in the videos themselves, which will be released under a "SHfansub" banner. I'm just saying we can't really do that, as my previous posts have pointed out.

yes, this is my first idea, but for the official stuff we put only the subtitle file for download, and although the name of the post is SHfansub, my first idea was not to released under a SHfansub. we could do that if the admin want to, or we could do it by ourselves, like Scandalfansub

I really think that the girls and sony do not complain if we translate some interviews, is just interviews, they do not earn money for that, it's a way to promote the band, and if we put then into english they can promote in a worldwide level.
If my band grow, and start to have fans in japan, for example, and someone who speaks portuguese and japanese translates some of our interviews, i'd love
but anyway, like NathanielG the key is to get translators, we can discuss the legal things later
we don't know even if this idea'll go on




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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:54 am

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320x200

Mainstream Artist
Mainstream Artist
NathanielG wrote:Anyway the key thing is to get translators, if not we can "hire" translators, again it does depend on how serious you are about this issue.
Any idea on the ballpark cost of hiring translators?

bleachnlife wrote:Obviously things are different with different music records (sorry for using another SNSD example) you see a ton of subbed SNSD videos and SM entertainment doesn't seem to mind or thats how it seems.
Unfortunately SM is really worlds ahead of Sony. They're making a massive push right now for international exposure for SNSD and everything they've been doing, at least at the NYC events I've gone to, is new-school.

bleachnlife wrote:Only if Sony or SCANDAL gave us permission things would be some much easier...

I've been in touch with them before for other SH projects. IF we had a team 110% in place, with some new subs done and not released as proof to ourselves we were serious, I could ask what (if anything) is acceptable for fansubs or transcripts. It's always quite possible they won't allow anything, but if we were at that point we would be ready to ask.

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:04 am

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
Depends on the class of translation you want, there are real professionals who can do translations + transcripts but they cost upwards of 15 USD/hr. I know some people also charge per word (which I don't think is suitable since we are doing videos).

And I'm talking about real experienced, professional translators.



In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:39 am

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Hammer

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
Unfortunately SM is really worlds ahead of Sony. They're making a massive push right now for international exposure for SNSD and everything they've been doing, at least at the NYC events I've gone to, is new-school.

I can back this up. I saw a ton (well not that many, but still... a lot) of news regarding SNSD. Witch unfortunately as 320x200 said, Sony doesn't seem to even think of doing. Witch would only help SCANDAL.

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:33 am

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darksteel

International Performer
International Performer
JosephRuela wrote:
yes, this is my first idea, but for the official stuff we put only the subtitle file for download, and although the name of the post is SHfansub, my first idea was not to released under a SHfansub. we could do that if the admin want to, or we could do it by ourselves, like Scandalfansub

There is no point in changing the name to Scandalfansub or so as the file is "based" here at SH. Some how, the file will still be "linked" back to SH unless the content of "Scandalfansub" project is plan/discuss at SH.

Anyway
I think that if the project is go on, the subs should all be in softsub be it official or non official video. Don't really need to draw heat by hardsubbing it and posting it up on youtube. Posting the link of the sub files only in the forum like our Media section.



Sleeping to Rock Music.
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:45 pm

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JosephRuela

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
NathanielG wrote:Depends on the class of translation you want, there are real professionals who can do translations + transcripts but they cost upwards of 15 USD/hr. I know some people also charge per word (which I don't think is suitable since we are doing videos).

And I'm talking about real experienced, professional translators.

Actually, like someone said above, Is a FANsub made by fans, for fans

Anyway
I think that if the project is go on, the subs should all be in softsub be it official or non official video. Don't really need to draw heat by hardsubbing it and posting it up on youtube. Posting the link of the sub files only in the forum like our Media section.
Afterthought post only the sub files will be much more easier!!




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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:04 pm

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
I was replying to 320x200 when he asked about how much it costs to hire a translator. Mind you I was the one who said a fansubs for fans by fans, but if said fans lack the adequate skills to do translations we will have to look elsewhere for that particular skill set.



In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:40 pm

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JosephRuela

Indie Artist
Indie Artist
NathanielG wrote:I was replying to 320x200 when he asked about how much it costs to hire a translator. Mind you I was the one who said a fansubs for fans by fans, but if said fans lack the adequate skills to do translations we will have to look elsewhere for that particular skill set.

auhauhauahuahua sorry for my lack of attention so many things im my mind!! Sweating




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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:24 am

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Anarchy

Caless Student
Caless Student
IMO, it will indeed be a lot easier if SH officially release just the fansub file/script compared to releasing it together with the video source. This way, chances of getting DMCA'd will be a lot lower.

Whatever that is done with the subtitles afterwards(hardsubbed, muxed into .mkv container) should be under the table and not associated with SH officially.

TL;DR:
Do it but lie low.

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Re: SHfansub
Posted on Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:45 pm

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NathanielG

International Performer
International Performer
The main issue isn't releasing of content currently. We need to figure out how to get translators onto this project first, everything else can come later.



In raging day, in fearful night,
with strong hearts full, our souls ignite,
when all seems lost in the war of light,
look to the stars for hope burns bright!
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